Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

#51 by woody13 , Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:12 pm

So where would the law stand on trimming a factory bumper.Surely in an accident that mod as small as it is has technically weakened the bumper..?
And,I know this could go on forever.

#52 by 4life greg , Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:29 pm

Quote: Major Malfunction wrote in post #48
Has anyone seen these in use or can rate them, it solves the law problem
http://www.watling-towbars.co.uk/4x4_winches.html

Well I'm not to sure how the mounts they use would hold up to anything verging on seriously stuck, they may be fine? But what I do know is that the Champion Winch 8000lb that they use, now called a 'Warrior Winch', is only £259, and they charge £511 plus VAT, so £613.20. So you're paying an extra £354.20 for a bracket that attaches to the winch and a small tow bar etc. So

#53 by Major Malfunction , Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:48 pm

Realistically though if you have a rear tow ball aswell your recovery chances have just increased by 50% giving you more chance of self recovery and the ability to recover vehicles from behind. BTW the link I put up was only for guidance as to their practicality.

#54 by 4life greg , Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:05 pm

Yeah, I was just shocked at what they charged. At that price you could buy 2 of the Warrior winches and have them permanently mounted front and rear, and have £100 left over!
But if someone doesn't want a winch permanently attached then I suppose it's the best/only option?

#55 by Major Malfunction , Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:17 pm

Ye I don't like the winch set up permanent but for those who feel the need for a winch it's most likely the way for me. Plus take into account the price and legality of the winch bumper plus a winch it's a far cheaper way of having a winch.
On a side note with all the downed trees and power lines I saw the electricity board with defender land rovers with permanent winches fitted,I wonder who would be at fault if an accident causing serious injuries caused by the winch is at fault. The driver or the company that fitted or the owner of the vehicle??.

#56 by Yoda , Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:28 pm

So if ARB's bumper is illegal, it's a fair bet that all winch bumpers are illegal for road use. Yes we know you are highly unlikely to be penalised for it in a VOSA / police check. For reasons unknown. It tend to agree that they just can't be bothered with it. But in the event of an accident you can be damn sure that they will come down on you like a tonne of bricks. And any excuses such as "I don't have the original bumper any more", "I regularly go off road", or "it's not a bull bar" just won't fly.

I'm not removing mine for now. But the possibility of removing it is looking more likely. I think I'm going to contact 4x4at and ask them about their bumper.

#57 by 4life greg , Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:48 pm

Quote: Yoda wrote in post #56
I'm not removing mine for now. But the possibility of removing it is looking more likely. I think I'm going to contact 4x4at and ask them about their bumper.

I would think that the only thing on these bumpers that is causing the problem is that the bar that runs across the top of the bumper is a hazard to pedestrians, as in modern vehicles are designed that if someone is hit they go over the bonnet etc , if you were really worried about all the legalities, I wonder if you took that off, (Angle grinder

), then patched it up and resprayed the bumper, it would be no different than a simple winch mount bumper and the vehicle would keep its ability to send someone over the bonnet LOL.
I do find it weird that a Land Rover can have a completely flat front which would probably do the same to a pedestrian as our winch bumper, but it's fine/allowed. Same goes for vans etc.

#58 by Yoda , Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:35 pm

Is it perhaps that a steel bumper has no give and will cause a lot more blunt force trauma than a plastic one? I hear what you're saying about the bull bar aspect of mine and ARB bumpers. But artic trucks aren't going to send someone over the top and they don't have steel bumpers.

#59 by Mallinman , Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:09 pm

Interesting point is that a lot of council, water board and electricity board pickups have winches mounted into metal winch trays in there bumpers. Surely those big corporations would have looked into the legality of fitting them. Especially with all the health and safety and insurance they have to go thru.

#60 by ronniecabers , Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:16 pm

What I would be more worried about is the insurance.....yes you may have it insured but if it is deemed illegal ( in the event of an accident ) would you still be covered or would the insurance see this as a reason to null and void your insurance?

#61 by Mallinman , Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:23 pm

With the bumper I've got on I don't think I would need to fix my truck.

#62 by Zoidburg , Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:48 pm

It's a but of a grey area with vehicles registered before the legislation change in 2007 as they could have been supplied from new with bull bars or a winch bumper and that would be legal and not considered a modification by most insurers. Anything installed as an accessory would have to be declared to your insurer as a modification but in the legal sense it would be tricky to prove when it was fitted and the legislation change did not require vehicles already fitted with bull bars etc to have them removed. What it did was stop new cars being supplied with equipment that is considered to be harmful to a pedestrian in the event of a collision and also sales of accessories that did the same.

It won't be an issue for any of us Classic owners but could be a problem on a pram as it would have been registered after the legislation change although it couldn't fail an MOT for it. It probably isn't even a criminal offence to simply have one on your 2007 onward truck but a business could be prosecuted for supplying it to you and you could potentially be sued if you killed or seriously hurt a pedestrian with it.

#63 by robert3040 , Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:10 pm

Just catching up with this thread and few good points raised.
I have like Yoda an Mck winch bumper.Insured by Adrian Flux .Listed in mods with pictures supplied and a legal agreement of insurance for that truck with its mods so to me no probs on the insurance side.
Vosa? Ain't been pulled yet and don't really think they are after us and our bumpers.As mentioned hgv's ,trucks vans and tractors which I see daily on the road driving beside me have less pedestrian safety frontage than me! (Both my daily long bed and 7 1/2 tonne truck have steel bumpers)
I personally won't be removing my bumper .

#64 by Mallinman , Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:14 pm

I ain't gonna remove mine. Have you ever tried shoving a cow with a plastic bumper??

#65 by Major Malfunction , Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:16 pm

My DAF tractor and Scania have steel bumpers.

#66 by PAULSV6 , Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:17 pm

Winch " recovery" bumpers need to be E marked from new. ARB will now NOT supply bumpers to the UK that have got the front protection bars fitted. They can only be supplied as off road use.

#67 by Mallinman , Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:19 pm

Quote: PAULSV6 wrote in post #66
Winch " recovery" bumpers need to be E marked from new. ARB will now NOT supply bumpers to the UK that have got the front protection bars fitted. They can only be supplied as off road use.

So they can still supply the bottom bumper without the bars???

#68 by PAULSV6 , Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:21 pm

Yes. When I bought mine I was looking at getting a ARB bumper. This is how I found out about it.

#69 by Mallinman , Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:26 pm

So would mine technically be fine with the bars above the bumper
Bild entfernt (keine Rechte)

#70 by PAULSV6 , Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:28 pm

If yours is TJM bumper it should be E marked. But they would not supply it now because of the bars.

#71 by Mallinman , Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:50 pm

Yea it's a TJM.

#72 by Yoda , Wed Nov 18, 2015 9:54 pm

@PAULSV6 Do you know if this one is E marked / legal for road use? It has no bars. I've emailed them for their interpretation.

http://www.4x4at.com/mitsubishi-l200-199...nt-winch-bumper

#73 by PAULSV6 , Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:02 pm

Quote: Yoda wrote in post #72
@PAULSV6 Do you know if this one is E marked / legal for road use? It has no bars. I've emailed them for their interpretation.

http://www.4x4at.com/mitsubishi-l200-199...nt-winch-bumper

As far as I aware yes

#74 by Fielder , Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:43 pm

Anyone got a E-Mark sticker for sale? ;)

#75 by Mallinman , Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:45 pm

Quote: Fielder wrote in post #74
Anyone got a E-Mark sticker for sale? ;)

I got a metal stamp set. Bet we could make one.

Posts:	12.549
Date registered	10.05.2011

Posts:	1.027
Date registered	11.04.2011

Posts:	4.311
Date registered	07.12.2014

Posts:	1.027
Date registered	11.04.2011

Posts:	4.311
Date registered	07.12.2014

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)

RE: Winch Bumper Legality. (Law types needed)