Finding ground

#1 by Linusp3 , Tue May 15, 2018 9:11 am

Hi

I’m about to install an auxiliary battery on the flatbed and plan to ground it behind the rear lights. Do the chassis there provide enough connection to the front of the car or will I have to draw a negative cable all to the way to the battery?

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RE: Finding ground

#2 by 123hotchef , Tue May 15, 2018 10:49 am

personally I would drill the x member under the tub mate and put a bolt through it make sure to use a washer both sides and sand back to bare metal


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RE: Finding ground

#3 by Linusp3 , Tue May 15, 2018 11:51 am

Quote: 123hotchef wrote in post #2
personally I would drill the x member under the tub mate and put a bolt through it make sure to use a washer both sides and sand back to bare metal


Yes, I plan to sand the paint away and tap and use a bolt from the underside. The best location I found for this is here;
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Why should I use a washer on both sides?
What do you mean by “x member under the tub”? Where is that?


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RE: Finding ground

#4 by 123hotchef , Tue May 15, 2018 11:58 am

Quote: Linusp3 wrote in post #3
Quote: 123hotchef wrote in post #2
personally I would drill the x member under the tub mate and put a bolt through it make sure to use a washer both sides and sand back to bare metal


Yes, I plan to sand the paint away and tap and use a bolt from the underside. The best location I found for this is here;


Why should I use a washer on both sides?
What do you mean by “x member under the tub”? Where is that?


If it is for a battery idealy the earth needs to be to the chassix rather than body work. The X member that runs between the chassis, either the one that holds the spare of the one in front or behind it, or just the chassis rail itself where the tow bar bolts on


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RE: Finding ground

#5 by 123hotchef , Tue May 15, 2018 11:59 am

mine goes straight down to the chassis


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RE: Finding ground

#6 by 123hotchef , Tue May 15, 2018 11:59 am

through the grommet


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RE: Finding ground

#7 by Linusp3 , Tue May 15, 2018 7:04 pm

Quote: 123hotchef wrote in post #4
Quote: Linusp3 wrote in post #3
Quote: 123hotchef wrote in post #2
personally I would drill the x member under the tub mate and put a bolt through it make sure to use a washer both sides and sand back to bare metal


Yes, I plan to sand the paint away and tap and use a bolt from the underside. The best location I found for this is here;


Why should I use a washer on both sides?
What do you mean by “x member under the tub”? Where is that?


If it is for a battery idealy the earth needs to be to the chassix rather than body work. The X member that runs between the chassis, either the one that holds the spare of the one in front or behind it, or just the chassis rail itself where the tow bar bolts on


Can I use this part of the tow bar (if I clean it up properly) or do it has to be the chassis rail?

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RE: Finding ground

#8 by 123hotchef , Tue May 15, 2018 8:28 pm

can u get to the other side of that (chassis side?) what gauge cable are you using? the bigger surface area touching bare metal the better really as this will probably be the only source of ground for the 2nd battery


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RE: Finding ground

#9 by Linusp3 , Tue May 15, 2018 10:14 pm

Quote: 123hotchef wrote in post #8
can u get to the other side of that (chassis side?) what gauge cable are you using? the bigger surface area touching bare metal the better really as this will probably be the only source of ground for the 2nd battery


When you say “the other side” I guess you don’t mean the left side of the tow bar? Or do you? If not, could you be more specific? Please bear with me, English is not my native language so I sometime have a hard time figuring out what people are saying...

I’m hooking the 2:nd battery up to a Ctek D250S, according to the manual I need 10mm2 (AWG8) cable from the starter battery to the charger onward to the 2:nd battery, so I figure 10mm2 is what I’ll be using for ground as well!


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RE: Finding ground

#10 by 123hotchef , Tue May 15, 2018 10:19 pm

no i mean the other side of the bit in the picture ie the inner side chassis side

10mm2 cable is only good for 70amps what battery are you fitting as the 2nd


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RE: Finding ground

#11 by 123hotchef , Tue May 15, 2018 10:22 pm

i would be using 25mm2 at the minimum

40mm2 would be even better especially with the long run front to back and in the event you want to jump urself from 2nd battery


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RE: Finding ground

#12 by Paddy1000111 , Wed May 16, 2018 12:31 am

Using a thinner cable will be fine for the earth as it is extremely short if you are going to the chassis so 25mm will be more than enough for that. It all depends what you will be using it for. If you are going to be running the starter off it then you will need a separate wiring system to the charging system for battery jumping and a way to prevent current being drawn back through the charging relay during start up. The battery cables don't have to be crazy size wise. 25mm should be more than enough. Remember you are only jumping the start battery (in other words giving the main battery some extra juice) and the wiring doesn't have to handle a continuous 600A load, at the most it will be for maybe 5 seconds so spending a tonne more on extra copper will be a wasted venture.


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RE: Finding ground

#13 by 123hotchef , Wed May 16, 2018 7:18 am

Quote: Paddy1000111 wrote in post #12
Using a thinner cable will be fine for the earth as it is extremely short if you are going to the chassis so 25mm will be more than enough for that. It all depends what you will be using it for. If you are going to be running the starter off it then you will need a separate wiring system to the charging system for battery jumping and a way to prevent current being drawn back through the charging relay during start up. The battery cables don't have to be crazy size wise. 25mm should be more than enough. Remember you are only jumping the start battery (in other words giving the main battery some extra juice) and the wiring doesn't have to handle a continuous 600A load, at the most it will be for maybe 5 seconds so spending a tonne more on extra copper will be a wasted venture.


why would one need a separate wiring system? I just used a relay and switch quick flick of the switch and I can jump myself no sperate wiring system needed just the switch.


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RE: Finding ground

#14 by Linusp3 , Wed May 16, 2018 8:23 am

Quote: 123hotchef wrote in post #10
no i mean the other side of the bit in the picture ie the inner side chassis side

10mm2 cable is only good for 70amps what battery are you fitting as the 2nd


So you mean here, on the inside of what the tow bar bolts on to?

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Im fitting a 80Ah battery, I’m building a camper. It will run a freezer, some lights, charging cellphones and perhaps sometimes a inverter. No tools will be powered from the 2:nd battery and I will not jump the car from there (already have two batteries under the hood).

Do you think a 10mm2 cable are too thin still? Or will it be OK?


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Last edited 05.16.2018 | Top

RE: Finding ground

#15 by 123hotchef , Wed May 16, 2018 8:54 am

hard to tell from that picture but as long as it is clean to bare metal and the chassis it will be a perfect ground.

I would want to use 25mm2 cable with a 80ah battery as a minimum 10mm2 is very low rated for that long run


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RE: Finding ground

#16 by Paddy1000111 , Wed May 16, 2018 11:08 am

Quote: 123hotchef wrote in post #13
why would one need a separate wiring system? I just used a relay and switch quick flick of the switch and I can jump myself no sperate wiring system needed just the switch.




I mean instead of the charging system. The amount of current drawn during start will easily toast a split charge relay. You would have to run the 10mm2 wiring from the split charge relay to charge the battery in the back and then run a separate isolatable supply which is what it sounds like you have done) to jump the starter battery and start from.

As far as the cable size goes its all based on how many amps you will be pulling from the battery and then how far you will be mounting the equipment from the battery. When it comes down to cable sizing it's all based on voltage drop. The usual acceptable drop is 3% of system voltage. Thinner wire causes more resistance and either heats up or causes issues with whatever you have it connected to down the line. For example 10mm2 wiring will deal with 30A continuous load at 12.6V (standard charged battery voltage) if the wire is 2 meters long. If the wire is 1 meter long however then 10mm2 wire can handle a continuous current load of 70A.

You need to add together all of the things you will be running and then work out how long the cable run will be. There's plenty of cable sizing tools online, this one is handy, just set it to 3% loss and use a voltage of 12.6V (The loading on the wire reduces as the voltage does up so you need to use the lower voltage) http://www.solar-wind.co.uk/cable-sizing-DC-cables.html


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RE: Finding ground

#17 by Linusp3 , Wed May 16, 2018 10:11 pm

Quote: Paddy1000111 wrote in post #16
For example 10mm2 wiring will deal with 30A continuous load at 12.6V (standard charged battery voltage) if the wire is 2 meters long. If the wire is 1 meter long however then 10mm2 wire can handle a continuous current load of 70A.


The Ctek uses a 30A fuse so no more than 30A will pass thru the cables at any point. Right?

Quote: Paddy1000111 wrote in post #16
You need to add together all of the things you will be running and then work out how long the cable run will be. There's plenty of cable sizing tools online, this one is handy, just set it to 3% loss and use a voltage of 12.6V (The loading on the wire reduces as the voltage does up so you need to use the lower voltage) http://www.solar-wind.co.uk/cable-sizing-DC-cables.html


Should I calculate the total length of the pos AND the neg cable, or just the negative lead?


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RE: Finding ground

#18 by Rob1307 , Fri May 18, 2018 6:36 am

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The earth on mine goes to the chassis , I drilled a hole for it , the kit I made myself from welding cable with a 200 amp relay and a manual switch on the dashboard to turn it on and off


02 animal double cab back on the road after two years in a barn
shogun sport , not much I can say about it really other than it’s slower than the l200 🤷‍♂️
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RE: Finding ground

#19 by Linusp3 , Fri May 18, 2018 6:42 am

Quote: Rob1307 wrote in post #18
The earth on mine goes to the chassis , I drilled a hole for it , the kit I made myself from welding cable with a 200 amp relay and a manual switch on the dashboard to turn it on and off


Looks good!! Could you share a picture of the earth point/connection as well?


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RE: Finding ground

#20 by Rob1307 , Fri May 18, 2018 6:55 am

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Earth point on the rear chassis


02 animal double cab back on the road after two years in a barn
shogun sport , not much I can say about it really other than it’s slower than the l200 🤷‍♂️
In hythe kent


 
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RE: Finding ground

#21 by Linusp3 , Fri May 18, 2018 3:37 pm

So when we’re talking ground, might someone know the colour scheme of the -08 L200 cables? I unhooked the 12V plug between the front seats without checking first... one cable is black, the other one blue with a red mark.

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Last edited 05.18.2018 | Top

RE: Finding ground

#22 by 123hotchef , Fri May 18, 2018 4:37 pm

the black with silver bands will go to ground easy to check urself with a multi meter on ohm setting


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RE: Finding ground

#23 by Peter H , Mon Aug 13, 2018 10:34 pm

I have put mine under the bonnet.


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